You Say DMOZ Submission, I Say ODP Suggestion - Let's Call The Whole Thing Off?

An oft quoted problem with DMOZ long delays in submissions is the quality of submissions, to the point where some have said that the submission service should be turned off. While i support extreme measures in all forms, I think there is plenty that can be done to make editor's lives easier, and to reduce poor submissions.

The biggest point of influence in the whole submission process is, IMHO, the submission form. A good submission form can cut down on problems. A poor submission form will exacerbate problems.

So, I thought I would do a quick walk through of the submission process, to see if we can't see why there are so many bad submissions, and if we can't offer some suggestions to make it better.

So, lets start with Arizona/Localities/P/Phoenix/ Business_and_Economy/Real_Estate, cause this is an industry prone to bad submissions.

First thoughts: for a page with four things for me to add (URL, title, description and Email address), that is an incredibly long page (in fact, it is about 1,000 words long).

Why is that an issue? Glad I asked.

People, being busy / lazy and all don't read on the web.

They just scan.

People tend to read only the stuff in bold

• and
• Maybe
• A
• List

That is it.

As user just scans, so too I will scan the DMOZ submission page.

So, I am here to submit something, so I look for a "box" to put stuff in. Being impatient, I ignore the yellow and grey stuff at the top (it looks to me like a user license agreement no one ever reads) and look for a box to enter stuff in.

<scanning>OK, there is one. It has Site URL: in bold next to it. That looks about right. I'll put my URL in there (note, I WILL NOT read the points underneath cause they are out of my eye's view).

OK, back to scanning.

Ah, the next box says Title of Site:. I also notice "Please supply a short and descriptive title" underneath. Cool. How about:

"Leading Luxury Phoenix Arizona Real Estate Agent Bob Wilson - Million dollar and Luxury Homes". As a man, my definition of short may vary to yours, but as this fits in the box (trust me, I tried several variations) it must be OK.

Next. <scanning>

Site Description: That is a big box, so i don't notice / read the stuff underneath. If Title of Site: is supposed to be "short and descriptive", I assume I must be able to write quite a bit in this huge area.So I write (and feel free to ignore this, it is boring and long):

"Bob Wilson has been in real estate for years. With over 20 employees and a list of properties that includes Phoenix's premier properties, Bob Wilson Real Estate can help you find the property that is right for you. Our personal touch is what separates us from the rest, with individual agents only dealing with between 2 and 4 properties at any one time. Try us out today and experience the difference our personal touch makes".

Ok, NEXT.

I spot Your E-mail Address:, stick one in, go back to scanning, spot the Submit button and click it.

I bet that submission isn't what DMOZ want.

And whose fault is that? The submitter who followed the instructions he bothered to read, or the person that created a one page, 1,000 word submission form?

I vote a little from column A, and a heck of a lot from column B. Any web professional that doesn't know people don't read on the web should get another career. Oh, Nielsen irks me more than anyone, but Alertbox is still a must read for any web professional, and Jakob bangs on about this reading stuff a fair bit.

So, some suggestions:

Well, for starters, clear out all the dead wood. No one reads, so big chunks of text serve no purpose.

• Want people to read something
• Put a few points in a list

Taking my own advice ;)

• Put all the text boxes together in one area

This makes the form cleaner, and the important elements near boxes will more likely be read

• Make links to help on specific section

Context sensitive help is a good idea.

• Pre-fill text boxes with hints

This is the text most likely to be read.

• Rename some of the elements

"Title of site - Please supply a short and descriptive title"? That isn't really what they want. How about "Business name", which is what most of the "spammy" categories want after all. Even better, make this field something editors can change to suit a category.

Those are all pretty easy to implement, and provide better help in the flow of the task.

Some more advanced ideas that would require more work:

• Make it harder to submit

More hoops to just through will equate to better submissions.

• Make it a multi-pager

1,000 words is to many. Make people enter one field at a time, with detailed advice on each

• Ask for more information

In some places (i.e. Australia) certain categories require a registered business. make them put in an ABN. Easiest way to stop multiple submissions in categories like Mortgage Brokers.

• Force people to confirm their details

That would save on mistakes, and ensure that people don't stuff it up

• Put in an image thingy

Sure, these are annoying, but at least you know the submission was from a real person, not some automated thing.

As one final suggestion, perhaps DMOZ can look at - how - competitors - operate ;)

Google SiteMaps

So Everyone - is - talking - about - Google sitemaps.

Cool, that saves me having to repeat the mundanities ;) Instead, lets talk about something interesting: what a PR the coup this is.

Actually, just in case some people have no context, I probably need a little lead in. What Google sitemaps is: a system that allows webmasters to tell Google of the existence of all the URLs on a site. So, if I have 1,000 pages, I can tell Google where they all are. Oh, there are limits, those being 10MB uncompressed per sitemap, 50,000 URLs per sitemap and 1,000 sitemaps per site, but how many sites have more pages than 50,000,000?

This is, as far as I can think, the first direct and open means of communicating to search engines about indexing since, well, since the robots.txt protocol was invented in the dark ages (circa 1995).

Ok, that outta the way, Google have, in one swift move, and after months of crybabying from all angles about loss of focus, falling relevance, how they are a one trick pony and MSN are going to spend billions to bury them, people with any interest in search are abuzz with Google Sitemaps.

Think about it: all the negative forum posts, negative blogs, all the complaining about all that Google done to destroy Mom and Pop, has now all been washed away in one swift move, at least for the time being.

Now, instead, Google is the innovator again, and MSN and Yahoo are left to think what to do. Do they buy into this protocol and leave everyone with no doubt who runs search in the world? Or do they not implement it, and risk falling behind?

In Yahoo's case, the question is even bigger. What would happen to Sitematch Xchange, the Trusted feed programme?

This is an example of how Google have maintained dominance for so long (in search engine time, that is). Build a programme that is free, useful and original. Promote virally at little or no cost. Answer questions, build hype. Leave competitors playing catch up, looking old and tired and generally stop everyone talking "Google is dead" and start them talking about the new addition.

A simply brilliant PR and marketing move, and not a bad initiative as well ;)

For those wanting serious info, some links:
What is Google Sitemaps?
Sitemap Protocol
Sitemap Frequently Asked Questions
Danny Sullivan interview: "Google Sitemaps" Web Page Feed Program
Google Sitemaps - Login

The Sexy Side of SEO

Scottie: Well, Mike, I keep seeing people posting and saying things about the "dark side of SEO" being "sexier" than the white hat side. It made me wonder... is "black hat SEO" sexier?

Mike: I donno, I mean, sexier in what way? To me, it just stinks of a bunch of pudgy, sun-starved male underpanters sitting around with a near homoerotic desire for an IP list of all Google datacentres. I don't see anything sexy in that!

Scottie: ROFL... well, there seems to be a consensus that dark hat seo is more "glamorous" and "sexy". Why do you think?

Mike: I think that a lot of SEOers are from a group for whom "sexy" is a word applied to immovable objects, usually powered by electricity. The closest they come to anything living is Lara Croft!

Scottie: To me, the sexy side of SEM is improving a businesses' profit through search marketing, more of a long term result. Showing them new ways to use the web to sell more of what they sell.

That may not be glamorous... but when you think about it, the bad boy with the tattoos and the motorcycle may be more fun at first... but eventually you're gonna get burned!

Mike: So you're saying you prefer Motley Crew's Accountant to Tommy Lee?

Scottie: Well, I'm not saying PERSONALLY, but that is the idea! ;-)

The thing is the industry continues to be defined by the "bad boy types" because they make a better story. Hard work and a steady climb to the top is a pretty boring read as compared to the guy who made a million in a month by gaming Google...

Mike: And the world has an obsessions with garages and millions. Gateway, Google, Apple... these all started in someone's garage. Maybe it is garages that are really sexy.

Scottie: What creeps me out is the people who are saying the "dark side is sexy" are usually other guys... what d'ya think that means...

Mike: That bit REALLY scares me. There is this virtual homoerotic cult of the computer that I find just ickey. A CPU is NOT SEXY. I know, I know, LED lights and a case cut out look cool, but they can't love you back. If anything, people locked in their bedrooms with their computers are rather unsexy.

Scottie: who haven't bathed in days...

Mike: have forgotten what deodorant is...

Scottie: and are surrounded by pizza boxes...

Mike: And hyped up on Coca Cola and coffee...

Scottie: and are madly posting and yelling at their computer monitors...

Mike: usually in three day old undies...

Scottie: Yeah, I can see the attraction... NOT!

Mike: Can you feel the love brewing in me right now?

Scottie: LOL. You need a break for a cold shower?

Mike: Nah, thanx. Just a few deep breaths and i will be OK.

Scottie: Well, I guess since sex is the #1 industry on the net, it makes
sense that SEO would be sexy...

Mike: Maybe that is it. Maybe people confuse the work they do on pr0n
sites with being sexy.

Scottie: Maybe. Do you think we will see dark side SEO webcams soon?

Mike: YUK

Scottie: Tune in RIGHT now...

Mike: Watch a cloaker IP deliver to Googlebot...

Scottie: Watch famous SEO's yelling at their screens as they fight with people around the world... see bulging veins in their foreheads...

Mike: see the empty pizza boxes and 5-day stubble

Scottie: LIVE

Mike: (at least we think they are alive, they don't move much ;))

Scottie: HOW MUCH!! I want to watch their every move. Maybe they will sneeze... or scratch..

Mike: Only $29 a month

Scottie: But how can I be sure I'm watching a real black hat SEO and not
some redirected proxy cam?

Mike: LOL. So would you say the final word is that Black hat SEO is no more or less sexy than the white hat stuff??

Scottie: I still don't see the glamour and appeal. Sure, you can autogenerate pages to exact keyword densities, hide 'em from people, and acquire 1000 brute force links with a few clicks, but tell that to a girl at a bar and see if she's impressed. ;-)

Mike: ... but tell that to a guy @ home on his AMD Athlon 64 FX Processor, Nvidia PCI Express 6800 graphics card both overclocked to within MHz of frying, with a full case mod, LED lights and RAID array, and he will probably get a virtual boner :)

Sexy truly is in the eye of the beholder!

The Traps

Well, my first entry here :) I feel honoured, privileged and, well, I'll just get on with it...

This post wraps up some interesting threads:

Clint suffers, mostly in bold, and occasional IN ALL CAPS.

Scottie offers some real advice, which is met with one of the funniest quotes ever:


It's worked for almost 10 years. I should not have to put together any "marketing plan". And people wonder why their businesses fail...

Elsewhere...

Google make some changes, which is nice. Change is as good as a holiday, no?

That about wraps it all up... Stay tuned...

Welcome to In Search of Stuff

In Search of Stuff is brought to you by Michael Motherwell and Scottie Claiborne, 2 search marketers on different continents who obviously have nothing better to do with their time than surf web marketing forums and post in this silly blog.

What qualifies us to comment on the state of search? Absolutely nothing! The two of us have moderated in various forums around the net and like to gossip about them via instant messenger. So Michael got a bright idea- let's share our wit and cynicism with the online world! Scottie thought it was a brilliant idea, so there you have it.

We're basically going to post our back and forth conversations on different hot topics in the forums and if you have nothing better to do, you can come back and read them. We'll update the blog when we feel like it, so don't get all bent if there aren't many posts.